Guy Carbonneau, Unexpected Hall-of Famer

 After years of absolute zero buzz around his Hall of Fame candidacy, Guy Carbonneau was surprisingly voted in as an Honoured Member. Personally, I don't agree with the selection of "Carbo" to the Hall, in my mind, there are probably forty other players I'd put in ahead of him. His supporters point to the fact that Carbonneau won three Selke Awards, three Cups and was the top defensive forward of his era. I'm not sure that's enough for enshrinement. To be blunt, if Guy Carbonneau is a Hall of Famer, then Buffalo Sabre Craig Ramsay is a Hall of Famer. Let's look at the numbers.
The stats do indeed back up the fact that Carbonneau was the top defensive forward of his time. Looking at HockeyReference.com, Carbonneau was the player with the most Defensive Point Shares over his time in the NHL. From 1982/83 through 1999/00 he was credited with 23.4 DPS, ahead of five legit Hall of Fame members; Gilmour, Gretzky, Francis, Andreychuk and Yzerman. Carbo was almost two full points ahead of second place Gilmour, so the praise for his defensive prowess is warranted. Is this enough for him to garner Hall of Fame membership? His offensive totals certainly don't help his argument.
In a career which spanned the highest scoring era in modern NHL history, Carbonneau managed to produce 0.50 points per game. Over 1318 career games he scored 260 goals and 663 points. Even with his defensive contributions, these numbers are hardly worthy of Hall of Fame enshrinement.
In comparison, during the course of his career, Craig Ramsay was at least as good defensively as Carbonneau. Through his 14 seasons (1971/72 to 1984/85) Ramsay produced more Defensive Point Shares than Carbo in three fewer seasons. His 23.9 ranked only slightly behind Bobby Clarke for second overall during the span. As with Carbonneau, Ramsay was surrounded by Hall of Famers, finishing just ahead of Lafleur, Shutt, Trottier, Dionne and Barber. As well, in three fewer years, Ramsay scored 252 goals (8 less than Carbonneau) and 672 points (9 MORE than Carbo).
Where Carbonneau had five 20 goal seasons and had career a high 57 points, Ramsay had eight consecutive 20 goal seasons and topped out at 71 points on two occasions. Ramsay even played in the All-Star game in 1976, something Carbonneau never did. Ramsay also led the NHL in Shorthanded Goals in 77/78, which Carbo never did and over his career scored only six less shorties in 248 fewer games.
Ramsay and Carbonneau's careers actually over-lapped for three seasons from 1982/83 to 1984/85. Carbonneau who was 9 years younger, had his top point production of 57 points in 84/85, the season Ramsay won his Selke Trophy. Carbonneau finished fifth in the Selke voting that year.
All in all, if Guy Carbonneau is a member of the Hall then so is Craig Ramsay. Do we really want to open that can of worms?

Comments

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

Team Canada 1972, What Might have Been

Image
Guy Lafleur, if he had played in the 72 Summit Series "No way. Can you imagine what our fans would say if we allowed Bobby Orr and Phil Esposito to play for Canada in that series and either...suffered an injury that might prevent them from playing with us for a year or more?" This was the concern of Weston Adams Jr, president of the Boston Bruins as quoted on April 20, 1972. After being speculated and discussed since February 1972 at the Olympics in Sapporo Japan, the series was set to go. Early on however, controversy stirred as to who exactly would be representing Canada. Bruins GM, Milt Schmidt agreed with his boss saying, "My only interest would be to see the Russians play the Bruins for the world championship...or whatever team wins the Stanley Cup." In the Vancouver Sun a few days later, the legendary Jim Coleman responds to the American naysayers suggesting that Team Canada should be made up strictly of players from Toronto Maple Leafs and Montreal
Read more

WHA Ottawa Civics, The Two Week Franchise

Image
Tom Earl, Daryl Maggs, Mark Lomenda, Gary MacGregor, Garry Swain "Please let the fans make up their own minds," Henry Feller told a press gathering. "Let them decide if they want pro hockey here. We have to average 7,000 or 8,000 in the remaining 19 home games for a break-even point." Feller was a director of the Founders Club who had interest in buying the WHA's Denver Spurs club. Ivan Mullinex, owner of the Spurs had brought his team to Ottawa in an attempt to drum up interest and save his investment. The date was January 2, 1976 and Mullinex was in debt to a Denver bank to the tune of $1 million dollars. This same day, the newly christened Civics lost their first game under the new moniker by a score of 2-1 at Cincinnati. Star of the team, Ralph Backstrom said after the game, "Our first official notice of the move hit us when we entered the Cincinnati rink and the names on the big scoreboard read: Stingers and Civics. Until that moment we were un
Read more

Denman Arena, Vancouver - "The Pile"

Image
Situated at the corner of Denman and Georgia Streets in Vancouver, sitting on the shore of Coal Harbour, the Denman Arena was once the largest in the world. Built in 1911 by Frank and Lester Patrick at a cost of $300,000 it was the main venue for their newly formed Pacific Coast Hockey Association. Until the Montreal Forum was built in 1926, it was the largest artificial ice arena in the world seating 10,500. Constructed of wood and brick, the large brick facing led Vancouverites to refer to it as The Pile. The Patrick brothers simultaneously built the 3,500 seat Patrick Arena in Victoria to help house their three team league which also included New Westminster. They would proceed to raid the established National Hockey Association of much of it’s top talent to stock their teams. The Pile would host the Vancouver Millionaires Stanley Cup championship in March, 1915, boxing matches featuring Max Baer and “Cinderella Man” James Braddock, movie star Rudolph Valentino as well as bicycle r
Read more